Marketing Today is a podcast that goes behind the scenes with the world’s best chief marketing officers and business leaders.

In its 194th episode, host Alan Hart interviews Kevin Frisch, who was recently the CMO of Wag and before that the Head of Performance Marketing, and CRM for $UBER. Before Uber, Frisch served as chief marketing officer of GSN Games and Snapfish. Frisch was named to Forbes’ CMO Next List 2019: 50 Game-Changing Marketing Leaders.

Frisch discusses the largest ever fraud case, a case between Uber and its suppliers of performance marketing and advertising. Frisch shares what happened, what was the trigger that launched the investigation, how they diagnosed what was going on, and several measurement challenges along the way.

Frisch shares the revelations on ad fraud and the difficulty of finding it only after you have the detailed data, “Until you do that, if you’re just relying on the higher-level reporting, you just don’t catch it.” He advises that “you should start by assuming that, half of what’s on the display channels, is fraud.” “You can’t sort of out-source, and say, here’s an anti-fraud tool, let me just run it through that.” There is still so much to learn about fraud. Frisch shares a much-needed perspective on how to approach and avoid issues.